Matrix & Night
Nov. 16th, 2003 02:22 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tarotgalHad a nice afternoon, even if I was running on 4 hours of sleep. The last Matrix movie was great. I really enjoyed it more than I'd expected to, given reviews. ANd both my theories were partly right. And I was write about part of the final showdown.
I did really enjoy it- and didn't think it could have ended any other way. I laughed, I was amazed... I was sad (I didn't quite cry. I love Trinity/Neo but not quite enough to start crying, oddly. I'll cry at Free Willy, but not at them) Parts reminded me of the Borg(Star Trek)... parts reminded me of the Replicators(Stargate) and I was starting to get used to them using the word Love a hundred times in the movie though in retrospect I wouldn't have liked the movie as much if it'd not been in there.
The fight scenes were incredible. Usually I get bored with Matrix fights as they run a little too long for my taste. But honestly, every one in this movie lasted just as long as it needed to, IMHO. No boredom.
I miss the actress who played The Oracle in the first two movies, though :-( Though they did a good job plot-wise of explaining why she wasn't there. I was worried they'd just cut her character out completely because she was dead. I should have known better.
Oh, and there were a few parts (I won't mention spoilers, but the main one had to do with a character 'impersonating' another character in a way) that blew me away. FANTASTIC!
I liked. A lot. Not as much theory(which I'd expected going in), but still some things to think about. And a good time. Very enjoyable. ANd I've seen all three Matric movies in theaters now! Whoohoo!
Ohhhh and many Hugos. DAMN! One Hugo is delicious, but hundreds of Hugos... Yum! After watching the second movie last night, we all sat around debating theories and possibilities (exept my boyfriend who I can never get to theorize about anything with me, grrr!) and one of the chicas (an out-of-town friend of a couple we hang out with regularly) says "Hey, you all know that the guy who plays agent smith is that elf guy from Lord of the Rings, don't you?" I refrain from slapping my forhead. "Which elf guy?" asks another person. "LORD ELROND!" I say rather sternly. "Which one was he?" someone asks. "The HEAD Elf guy," I reply, rolling eyes. "Foster father to Aragorn, Aarwen's father, Lord of Riven..." I can see they're not getting it. "The brown-haired guy who sort of led the meeting to decide what to do about the ring." ANd then they sort of get it. Gah. My boyfriend has a hard time with characters in the LotR. He doesn't understand who is who. Admittedly, I had a hard time with Boromir and Aragorn for a good part of the first movie. And sometimes I wasn't sure which was Pip and which Merry. But I worked hard to learn. Where as boyfriend claims he loves the movies and yet still says "I don't know who the hell was who in those movies. None of it makes sense to me." To which another friend says "Don't worry, I was just as confused when I read the books." *sigh* It's hard to make it through conversations like that after I take fandoms seriously. I almost brought up some things just to annoy them. LOL! But I don't spoil people intentionally...
Dinner was nice... though I had to listen to a few theories about the movie I don't agree with AT ALL given the evidence presented in the movie (basically, a guy's theory that contradicts some things we actually see in the movie, so ti makes no sense to me) Went out for ice cream afterwards (and yes, boyfriend ate no dessert again *sigh*), made a condom run, tried them out *G*, and then I crashed and slept for 3 hours straight. I missed yet another episode of Trading Spaces with the London folks... but honestly, I needed the sleep badly!
I'm going to hang out a little and eat now, I think. I have accomplished nothing today except internal debates about the nature of choices and programming and AI, etc.
I did really enjoy it- and didn't think it could have ended any other way. I laughed, I was amazed... I was sad (I didn't quite cry. I love Trinity/Neo but not quite enough to start crying, oddly. I'll cry at Free Willy, but not at them) Parts reminded me of the Borg(Star Trek)... parts reminded me of the Replicators(Stargate) and I was starting to get used to them using the word Love a hundred times in the movie though in retrospect I wouldn't have liked the movie as much if it'd not been in there.
The fight scenes were incredible. Usually I get bored with Matrix fights as they run a little too long for my taste. But honestly, every one in this movie lasted just as long as it needed to, IMHO. No boredom.
I miss the actress who played The Oracle in the first two movies, though :-( Though they did a good job plot-wise of explaining why she wasn't there. I was worried they'd just cut her character out completely because she was dead. I should have known better.
Oh, and there were a few parts (I won't mention spoilers, but the main one had to do with a character 'impersonating' another character in a way) that blew me away. FANTASTIC!
I liked. A lot. Not as much theory(which I'd expected going in), but still some things to think about. And a good time. Very enjoyable. ANd I've seen all three Matric movies in theaters now! Whoohoo!
Ohhhh and many Hugos. DAMN! One Hugo is delicious, but hundreds of Hugos... Yum! After watching the second movie last night, we all sat around debating theories and possibilities (exept my boyfriend who I can never get to theorize about anything with me, grrr!) and one of the chicas (an out-of-town friend of a couple we hang out with regularly) says "Hey, you all know that the guy who plays agent smith is that elf guy from Lord of the Rings, don't you?" I refrain from slapping my forhead. "Which elf guy?" asks another person. "LORD ELROND!" I say rather sternly. "Which one was he?" someone asks. "The HEAD Elf guy," I reply, rolling eyes. "Foster father to Aragorn, Aarwen's father, Lord of Riven..." I can see they're not getting it. "The brown-haired guy who sort of led the meeting to decide what to do about the ring." ANd then they sort of get it. Gah. My boyfriend has a hard time with characters in the LotR. He doesn't understand who is who. Admittedly, I had a hard time with Boromir and Aragorn for a good part of the first movie. And sometimes I wasn't sure which was Pip and which Merry. But I worked hard to learn. Where as boyfriend claims he loves the movies and yet still says "I don't know who the hell was who in those movies. None of it makes sense to me." To which another friend says "Don't worry, I was just as confused when I read the books." *sigh* It's hard to make it through conversations like that after I take fandoms seriously. I almost brought up some things just to annoy them. LOL! But I don't spoil people intentionally...
Dinner was nice... though I had to listen to a few theories about the movie I don't agree with AT ALL given the evidence presented in the movie (basically, a guy's theory that contradicts some things we actually see in the movie, so ti makes no sense to me) Went out for ice cream afterwards (and yes, boyfriend ate no dessert again *sigh*), made a condom run, tried them out *G*, and then I crashed and slept for 3 hours straight. I missed yet another episode of Trading Spaces with the London folks... but honestly, I needed the sleep badly!
I'm going to hang out a little and eat now, I think. I have accomplished nothing today except internal debates about the nature of choices and programming and AI, etc.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-17 05:05 am (UTC)Wow...I'm glad *somebody* loved Matrix:Revolutions. I refrained from posting my thoughts previously, so that I wouldn't color your experience in any way. Now I'm glad I didn't say anything, so at least you enjoyed it. All of my friends and I hated almost everything about it, other than Agent Elrond...er..Smith! Hugo Weaving was pretty much the only actor involved in the movie that showed any spark of energy or enjoyment at all. Everyone else just seemed tired and flat to me. The special effects and fights were better in Reloaded, IMHO, and the all the fascinating hints of deeper meaning that were brought up in Reloaded were basically just dropped cold and abandoned in Revolutions, in favor of a flashy climax (and talk about too long, that battle for Zion was about 20 minutes longer than I needed to see...and involved exactly zero characters that I cared about.)
What was the purpose of Penelope? The Merovingian? The other 5 versions of The One? What makes Neo different? What has the architect been doing during all of Revolutions? Why invent Trainman only to drop him after 6 minutes of screen time and never touch upon his character again? I really wanted answers to all of these things, or at least attempts at answers. That, and the utter uselessness of Trinity's death were what really had me sad. I left the theater utterly depressed, heartbreakingly disappointed, and clinging to the hope that ROTK wouldn't let me down the same way...
I'd be happy to discuss Matrix theories with you anytime though...maybe you can show me different angles of thought that don't leave me wishing they'd never made a second and third Matrix movie. Sorry to be such a downer, but I love debating things like this with other fandom-saavy people, and I couldn't pass up the opportunity.
Part 1 of my response...
Date: 2003-11-17 05:38 am (UTC)Like I said in a reply to another post, I did think that it could have been a little longer and answered questions brought up in 2. There was so much beautiful theory and philosphy in Reloaded that was completely ignored in Revolutions- I'll certainly agree with you there. But I didn't have as many questions after 3 as I did after 2, which at least signals to me a good ending of the series.
Wow...I'm glad *somebody* loved Matrix:Revolutions. I refrained from posting my thoughts previously, so that I wouldn't color your experience in any way.
I'd read a LOT of unfavorable reviews towards it. So I was indeed already expecting to dislike it. ANd there were certainly parts I didn't like so much. But I wasn't disapointed. I liked it a lot. I don't know that I'd used the word 'loved' however.
Everyone else just seemed tired and flat to me.
Most characters were, especially compared to other movies. But I actually liked Trinity and her will to fight for Neo throughout. And I liked Seraph(sp?) who's cold and soft and mysterious but one hell of a fighter.
The special effects and fights were better in Reloaded, IMHO, and the all the fascinating hints of deeper meaning that were brought up in Reloaded were basically just dropped cold and abandoned in Revolutions, in favor of a flashy climax (and talk about too long, that battle for Zion was about 20 minutes longer than I needed to see...and involved exactly zero characters that I cared about.)
I liked the kid... er... I don't know his name- does he have a name? I just call him The Kid. I didn't really start liking him in Reloaded until after I saw the Animatrix story about him. I think that freeing one's own mind/self from the Matrix is a fascinating basis for existance. And, though he seems a little too loyal in believing so whole-heartedly in Neo without needing a reason... his presence is very interesting in that I believe he really could handle anything or go above and beyond what others are capable of. And that played out in the battle. I liked er... Link's chica. Actually, all the women, in general. I'm usually NOT a butt-kicking-chick fan (especially not after Highlander) but the balance struck up in this movie was nice to see for a change. When they needed everybody's support, that didn't just mean the men. And when there was a cause worth fighting for or a mission to be completed, everyone put their all into it. That, personally, was nice to see. And I think that was part of the overall theme... not just loving someone else enough to sacrifice your life and fight for it, but loving everyone enough to want to fight. And I think that's what Trinity's death helped Neo to see... but more on that later...
As for the battle scene... I think it HAD to happen. Zion had to have a big battle- on many fronts, not just one- and it had to be big and terrible and hopeless. The Architect said they'd been getting rather good at destroying it after so many attempts. There had to be something to show that they were really putting up a fight, and something to maybe make the viewer think that this time it really would work, that something had changed and they really WOULD win.
Maybe it was because I was getting bored by so many hand-to-hand or gun-to-gun fight scenes, but I was ready for the battle and liked it. Though it reminded me of fighting the borg and the replicators in places, I'll admit. I liked seeing how the sentinals fought- with a mission- only striking those that interfiered or got in their way to accomplishing their goals. It was simple and straightforward, and increased in intensity as the number of enemies increased. I liked that.
As for the ship coming to the rescue... well, I have some scientific faults as far as the EMP is concerned, considering its range in previous movies... but perhaps the, er, dome shape of the area increased its power. I don't know. But I didn't think the battle was too long. And I did care about some of the characters- especially The Kid.
Part 2 coming momentarily
Part 2
Date: 2003-11-17 06:02 am (UTC)In this one? Fuck if I know. She had one line, if I remember correctly. And that served to tell her husband that Trinity was prepared to die for the one she loved and take him with her... But, yeah, she was way underused and rather pointless.
As for: The Merovingian, The Trainman, Seti, and her family, etc.
I think these were present to show the roles of other programs in the world. In the first movie, all we got were humans vs. agents. In the second movie, we saw a lot of bad programs (twins, Merv) and some confusing ones (like the Architect and the Oracle) But here we start to see their roles, the fact that they have existances in the Matrix as well as out, the fact that they have purposes. However, none of them could deviate much from their programming, so to speak, it seemed. They didn't have free will. Unlike in part 2, where we weren't quite sure why Merv wanted the keymaker, for example, we start to realize that it might all be the programming, it might all be the way that the programs were created. And apprently the creation of some allows for emotions like love. But it's not something they can necessarily do anything about. But we do get a glimpse of the lives of the programs... and the fact that, even when they want/try to deviate from their roles (wanting a better life for daughter, letting Neo & gang escape and find the Keymaker) there are limits to their programming and their world (penelope's still with merv, etc.) I think their existance in the third movie was merely to show the difference between true free will and choice vs. programming and destiny. They're none of them as filled-out as characters as I would like... but on the other hand, they are just programs, so maybe that's all they are and no one ever bothered writing the details? The thing is, I think it's unique in and of itself that they don't FEEL as real/filled-out/3-D to me as the characters in Zion, for example.
The other 5 versions of The One? What makes Neo different?
I think their existance can be put in the 'desiny' category. They performed their functions, apparently flawlessly. They existed because they had to, they re-created Zion because it had to exist to appease the human batteries. They did what was expected, what as destined.
One could argue that Neo's choice was already made for him when he got to the two doors as well. But instead of just having the love of humanity, he had the love of one woman. He did something completely illogical and went for her instead, believing (as the Oracle did) that he could still save everyone anyway. Even if he had picked the proper door, Zion would still have been lost. At least this way, they could fight. They'd have the choice to live or die on their own. I think he GAVE them that choice, the choice to stand for themselves as opposed to being controlled by the machines, still. Even the council members (who I believe were possibly part of the original 23 freed from the last One) seemed rather shocked that they were given the choice... and in the end, they probably all would have died. But it would have been a much more noble and unique death, as opposed to the first 5 times.
Part 3 coming in a second...
Part 3
Date: 2003-11-17 06:03 am (UTC)And they share a connection. We don't know if any of the previous Ones shared a connection with a machine the way he did but we can assume not because much of their connection happens after Neo makes the choice of the other door... which the Architect says has never happened before. Even he doesn't know what will happen then. His programming doesn't help... it's beyond his bounds... he just has to sit back and watch. But the simbiotic relationship between humans and machines (which, personally, I think is less balanced toward the machine end than the movie let on) is a great theme in their universe... and the fact that both Neo and Smith took on some of the other's traits was incredible. Neo started feeling and being able to control machines. And Agent Smith took over the body of a human in the real world, even, looking through the world with human eyes just as Neo was blinded in order to see only the machine world at the end.
I think that makes him very, very difference. He seems to understand that it's not just that one side will win or lose... it's not just that the machines have control and will reset it all after each cycle... it's that in order to stop they really have to depend on each other and live in peace... and that's the only way to stop the war. There can't possibly be one group that wins over the other because even in winning, they've lost. Neo gets this. Neo seems to be part of BOTH worlds at the same time- something that happens after the door choice... something The Architect hadn't had in his programming.
Just like this great battle between human and machine couldn't be won with one victor and one loser, neither could the Neo/Smith battle. Either had to win or either had to die. They were evenly matched. They were part of each other, similar to the way the humans and machines are dependant on each other.
What has the architect been doing during all of Revolutions?
Sitting and watching, I suspect. He's anal. He's got tv screens. He's programmed to do certain things for the Matrix... most of what's happening in the movie is outside the Matrix. He seems like the sort of guy who'd just sit back and watch and try and make the best of what happens... but that's just what I picked up from the last scene and the scene he was in in 2
Last part... coming up...
Part 4
Date: 2003-11-17 06:03 am (UTC)Okay, so her death. Here's my take on that, too. She was chosen over the world by Neo. He felt a stronger tie to her than all of humanity. In order for him to save humanity- I mean, really put his all into it, knowing full well that he'd die by doing it- I think she had to die. I personally don't think that he would have had the will to live without her. Once she was dead, it was only a matter of time for him. His will to fight wasn't gone... and he did still want to save everyone and battle Smith... but afterwards, well, I don't think he would have known what to do with himself. So when the choice to sacrifice himself to 1-stop Smith finally and 2-make a deal with the machines in order to save the world arose, he was ABLE to CHOOSE to die, in a way. It was that choice he couldn't make in movie 2... he couldn't choose humanity and let her die... he was so attached to her that there was no choice. And now, that she's dead, there's no choice to be made, either. He has to save the world because there's no other option. There's no other door with Trinity behind it, waiting for him to come back.
Just like he lost his eyes to be able to see, he lost his love to be able to love humanity, which he couldn't do before. She taught him, she fought for him, she died for him, essentially (she could have gone with the other ship... but we all knew her choice was made for her, as well.. just like she was destined to love him).
So, there's my take on the points you raised. I do agree that it could have been much more profound, given 2. But at the same time it does raise a number of interesting points on its own. And it wasn't as bad as I'd heard it would be... :-)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-17 11:56 pm (UTC)The two things I liked about it, though... One is Seraph. Man, he should have been given more screen time just so I could drool over him! Such a hottie.
And the other you touched on yourself.
I won't mention spoilers, but the main one had to do with a character 'impersonating' another character in a way.
That actor just blew me away! Everyone among my group of friends was whispering back and forth to each other about what a stupendous job he did. I was very impressed.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-18 02:45 am (UTC)And the first time said actor started speaking I was like "HOLY SHIT! That's Agent Smith!" He was really incredible. You can really tell how much practice and work went into making his performance so perfect. I was really impressed by him, too :-)
I didn't have many expectations... especially after reading the critic's reviews. So I was much more pleased with the movie than I thought I'd be, honestly. Maybe that's why I sound so happy about it? Each one has a much different feel to it, which I think is nice to see in sequels... so many times they try to go for the same things that the originals were popular for and thus fail. I'm usually not into war movies either (I've had Black Hawk Down sitting here, waiting to be watched for a few days now and haven't been in the mood yet to crack it open and do so, just because, even with cute guys, it's really not at ALL my thing) But I thought they did a good job of personalizing it... I really did care about lots of the character fighting. Especially the Kid.