Flood

[tarotgal]

Okay... I have a question. Actually, I've had a question since Friday but no one's been able to answer it yet. When there's a natural disaster we can see coming and an order to evaculate the city, why don't we deploy hundreds of greyhound and other charter busses to the area and evauate people using those so people who can't drive can get out and so that not as many people have to drive and clog the roads? I mean, I know most buses are run by public companies but I think it's a fantastic solution that would simple things up so much and the nation could compensate the companies (or cities if they send city/county busses) and people could be bussed out in a mass movement to save lives.

Second question- WTF Bush?!!! Oohhh you cut your vacation short by a day or two to fly back to DC. Why the hell didn't he go down there? Air Force 1 could have held a LOT of drinking water and people SO need to know people are there for them. Isn't that the POINT of a president? Even a nice address to the nation or something- I've heard statements from him but haven't actually seen him speak on the subject yet publically. WTF? Go down there in your big fat plane with some food and fresh water and lift their spirits, damnit. Someone just killed himself in the dome today- believe me, they need lifted spirits. ANd water. Poor people. Completely stuck. Everything gone. I'd be terrified. Stupid people wanting to stay because they didn't think it was going to be bad. I understand people who physically couldn't leave, but I can't believe those ones that didn't think it was going to be bad. Because I'm not even down there and I knew it would be.

Comments

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

Both Bush and all these looters in New Orleans have me totally disgusted! Yeah lady, like the police told you it was ok to go in the Wal-Mart and fill your cart with cookies...real healthy choice of survival food there. And I wonder where all these hoodlums are taking all the looted clothes/shoes/electronics in the interim before they can get out of the city and sell it all on ebay. Scum-sucking lowlifes, and self-righteous ones at that.

This is the first time I can recall that a natural disaster anywhere near this magnitude was not visited by a President within a day or so of it being safe to do so. Bush is a callous, self-centered prick, and I'm delighted to see that his approval ratings are the lowest ever...even if it is mostly due to selfish concerns about gas prices from the people polled.

And call me cynical, but I'm having a hard time mustering up a huge amount of sympathy for the people who were able to leave but chose not to. I feel very badly that they lost everything, but when they're sobbing about being traumizied and having to cling to a tree, I just want to smack them and say 'You're so stupid! What possessed you to ignore the blantant and numerous dire warnings? ARRRRGH!'

I'm just glad I got to see New Orleans during a pharmacy convention in December 2003 and party on Bourbon Street for one night. I doubt it'll ever be the same again. Ironically, I just got a flyer in my mail today advertising a conference on Antimicrobial agents and chemotherapy scheduled for September 21-24 in the New Orleans conference center. Good thing I wasn't planning on going...

[(Anonymous)]

I just have something to say. I know people in New Orleans. Ok, so looting is stealing. However, can you honestly say that you wouldn't do the same thing in that given situation? You have nothing left. No food. No water. Nothing. Your child is starving. Walmart has cookies. What do you do? I'm sorry, but in that situation, if the oppertunity is presented, I say go for it. Evil Walmart wont even feel a loss for a package of cookies and some drinking water. .. but that woman would feel a loss if her child died of starvation in her arms.

I'm sorry, I know that was harsh, but I really really feel strongly about this. I mean, I agree: people, ethically speaking, shouldn't be carting off guns and dvds. Ok, right. I agree. However, these people have nothing. Honestly, I think that at the point that they're in, people turn into animals. They have nothing but their instincts.

Plus, the warning thing. Ok, so you're given a warning. Things could get bad. Nobody knew it would be like this. The last hurricane of this magnitude happened in the 1900s in Texas. Until it was too late, people knew it would be bad, but not this bad. A great deal of the damage is due to the blocks put on the mississippi river breaking. They were built to only withstand a level 3 hurricane. Katrina was a level 5. I think that the people who planned that were to blame. Why have weak barriers put in when the area already has a history of recieving such horrible natural disasters? Anyway, back to the point: the people are poor. The people affected were mainly middle classes (poorer middle classes) where could they have gone? Relatives across country? Ahem, that costs $$$ for tickets.

I think that at this point, compassion is in order. We can point fingers later. What's important now is that everyone is brought to safety.

I'm really sorry, I know that I probably misunderstood you, but this thing, like I said, has really upset me.

~A

[tarotgal]

I just have something to say. I know people in New Orleans.
Are they all right? Have you heard from them?? *hugs* They'll be in my thoughts.
I have a great aunt who lives just outside the city. We haven't heard anything yet but she's far enough away from the center of this that we're sure she didn't lose her home completely and she's probably alive... though without power and water... I'm worried.

Ok, so looting is stealing. However, can you honestly say that you wouldn't do the same thing in that given situation?
If you read down in the replies, Lady K says about looting pretty much exactly what you're saying here. ANd I agree as well. I've always felt that way about looting in this situation. People have to eat and drink.

The problem, IMHO, is just how incredibly out of hand it's been able to get. I'm ALL for taking food and clothing and water but burning down pawn shops and shooting doctors and patients who are tryind to evacuate is a WHOLE other story. There should be a huge national guard presence so people feel SAFE. Even if they don't have anything left and no food and water, getting people to feel like there IS help coming in and people who care is the first step to getting things back in order and calming people down in order to get them to the next step. I'm just terrified right now that the astrodome in TX is saying it's full...

But my point is, I think it's okay to be a little harsh... but I also think Lady Korana (and I) agree with you here.

Plus, the warning thing. Ok, so you're given a warning. Things could get bad. Nobody knew it would be like this. The last hurricane of this magnitude happened in the 1900s in Texas. Until it was too late, people knew it would be bad, but not this bad.
Except that they DID know the whole city was below sea level. And they did know the systems holding back the waters were old and in need of repair and that this was bound to happen one day. I just feel like lots of people took chances that didn't pay off. And I feel incredibly bad for those people. But if they DID have the means to leave and DID NOT, then they go WAY down on my list of sympathies below people who physically couldn't leave or did not have any financial means to do so. People without cars or money, people who were homeless, people in fascilities, people who can't fend for themselves- those are the people I am heartbroken over. I honestly, SERIOUSLY don't understand people who had the means to go but didn't. There was enough warning and enough information about how bad it would be. Just get in a car and drive and keep driving. But I reitterate my point in the original post about busses. Why the hell don't they evaculate people on a large scale like that in cases like that? People who don't have the means or money to leave, in order to save as many lives as possible? I know I always think the worst about things, but with the evidence I had I really thought it would be this bad... if not worse... and I feel SO badly for those people there.

I think that at this point, compassion is in order. We can point fingers later. What's important now is that everyone is brought to safety.
I- and I think everyone else- agrees with you about compassion. The problem is, several slow and completely botched attempts at specific things has made many of us very angry and worried because we see how it could be better. And I think we all feel that if we don't point fingers at what we feel is wrong, it won't change and be right. Anderson Cooper on CNN tonight stopped the LA senator in mid-sentence in order to practically yell at her on air about how the officials were all talk and no action. Then he started crying on air. I think there's just so much that needs to be done and so many people all over the country feeling helpless that it's going to take a lot longer for compassion to equal actual help and results. Hopefully now that the National Guard is moving in even more they can better regulate distribution and keep things like murder from happening. It'll take a LONG time for them to start feeling safe, but after several horrid days of this, it looks like it might start to get better soon.

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, tg! You said everything I meant, but in a more coherent fashion (as usual). :)

My initial responses about looting were made within the first day or so afterwards, back when I fully expected them to start mass-air-dropping food, water, and supplies everywhere there was a sign of life. Once it became clear that no one in charge of helping was getting their butts in gear quickly enough, all bets are off and all food/drink/clothes/neccessities are completely fair game. I completely understand the need for survival and don't blame people one iota for trying to feed their families. Yes, I would be doing the same, and taking cat food for my sweetheart Eowyn to boot, since she wouldn't have been allowed in a shelter. (Well, actually I would have taken her and left but I acknowledge that I'm lucky enough to have that option open to me if I were down there.)

I also completely understand the impossibility of many poor and/or infirm people leaving. These people were never the ones my ire was directed at. Quite the opposite, I'm absolutely infuriated by the complete inattempt to get these people out of harm's way. Sure, some people were bussed to the Superdome, but what if they were unable to get to the buses in the first place? The governments totally dropped the ball on this one, and I'm heartbroken for these people and the conditions they're now being forced to endure until it may kill them.

The mayor of New Orleans just ranted for a good 10 minutes or so on CNN over his frustration over the slowness of response and the lack of coordinated efforts. He also raised a good point, that a lot of these people with guns are quite possibly drug addicts whose supplies have run out and they're desperate for a fix. Others are just opportunistic scum. I'm glad it looks like *something* might possibly get done to stablize the situation today.

It also looks like Bush is finally deigning to grace the area with his presence today, though he's starting his trip with a conference in *Alabama*, far from the most heavily damaged areas. I hope he can keep that smug little grin off his face during the speech, out of respect for the victims. He has a brief tour scheduled, then he's off to Biloxi, Miss. where he might *gasp* actually talk to a few people in person and they're not even sure he's going to visit New Orleans, though he might go to Louisiana. *bangs head against desk repeatedly* Whatever he does, it's WAY too little, WAY too late to convince people he has any real sympathy or even complete understanding of what these people are going through.

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I actually applauded Anderson Cooper here in my apartment, even though there was no one to hear me. There are a lot of hard questions that need concrete answers IMMEDIATELY if people are going to survive, and it truly seems to me that the government is patting themselves on the back and believes they really are doing everything possible, when it's painfully obvious that some of the people highest up in the chain of command (of FEMA in particular) are dropping the ball in numerous ways. What Mr. Cooper said need to be said, and his anguish at what these victims are facing is coming through loud and clear. If I were a journalist, that man would be my hero.

(btw, not to make light of anything that's going on, but am I the only one who instantly thinks of the X-Files Movie and government conspiracies when FEMA is discussed? Just a weird random thought...)

[tarotgal]

I'm glad you got to go visit it! I've never been and, now sadly, I suppose now I probably never will. I honestly believe they should not spend the time and effort to rebuild but that's a debate for MUCH further down the road.

And call me cynical, but I'm having a hard time mustering up a huge amount of sympathy for the people who were able to leave but chose not to. I feel very badly that they lost everything, but when they're sobbing about being traumizied and having to cling to a tree, I just want to smack them and say 'You're so stupid! What possessed you to ignore the blantant and numerous dire warnings? ARRRRGH!'
I'm the same way. If they were ABLE to leave and chose not to, they're WAY down on my list of sympathizing right now. Even where I was it was perfectly clear that it had the potential to be this bad- considering the place is below sea level and everyone has been predicting this for a hundred years. I guess everyone feels like they have some invulnerability (the 'it won't happen to me' thing) but if I had heard those warnings and lived there, and if I had a car, I would have been on my way out in an instant, no question. So I honestly don't understand people who didn't do just that if they were able to. There are just SO many others I feel for before I get to them.

As for your Bush comments- exactly. EXACTLY!


*sigh* Such a terrifying mess. And it only seems to be getting worse, not better. But I seriously have hopes now with the guard and money and donations pouring in...

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

It's really eerie. I spent most of my time there in the Convention Center, and when they show footage of the inside now, I want to scream or cry, or both. I can see in my mind's eye exactly how it looked with all the posters, the drug fair, the long bank of computers set up for conference communication, the masses of pharmacists and students in business suits walking those carpeted halls. It was probably the most organized business meeting I've ever attended, and we had the added benefit of getting to enjoy the fantastic local cuisine and culture in the evenings. I had seafood and drank very strong hurricaines in a little family restaurant on Bourbon street, and I'm sorry to see what it looks like down there now.

[vatergrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid the only words I have right now are choice, ripe, and not to be uttered in polite company. "Oh, look at the second major homeland disaster under my watch -- just one more round of golf, and I'll fly home tomorrow to start avoiding it." Vladimir Putin got truckloads of sh&! when he did approximately the same thing when a nuclear sub stalled out and hundreds of soldiers were stranded (and later suffocated) undersea. He learned *his* lesson and acted appropriately when another sub was endangered, but I fear Georgie is just dumber (and more caloous) than four bags of hammers. Three bags of hammers is the ultimate measure of stupidity in my house, just to give you an idea of where duh Prez stands.

That being the case, I'm not entirely against looting *food* items, though the cookies were not thebest nutritional choice, to be sure. The problem is, at this point, people are just desperate for *anything* caloric -- the distinction between "junk" food and FOOD has vanished. ANd the looting in general is hideous, but it tells me almost too much about the state of fear and desperation some folks are living in. Er, yeah, as if you have *electricity* to run that DVD player you just stole? Idiocy, but these are near-apocalyptic times in Louisiana and Biloxi.

There's some really good info at MakingLight.com, a blog run by two New york science fction editors and writers. Intelligent commentary to go along with our own. :)

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

You're right. I've done some thinking and at this point in the game, I'm all for letting them have whatever food/drink/clothing/toiletries/etc. that they can get their hands on, seeing as rescue is not going to be swift in coming. It's the people systematically carting off shopping carts full of expensive electronics, stuffing bags with mounds of designer sneakers obviously not intended for their own use, and wiping stores of their supplies of guns that really have me pissed off. They're obviously mobile enough to go out and get this stuff, would it kill them to use their relatively good fortune to try and help others rather than shoot people to try and line their own pockets?

[vatergrrl.livejournal.com]

I have been semi-deliberately avoiding watching any news coverage of NO and Biloxi, and had *heard* about the looting, but had only seen one print image. Good heavens, people are carting away GUNS from stores? These are truly horrific times, and although I fervently oppose the imposition of martial law, it appears that that *might* be the only way to maintain public safety, at least for a while.

The most heartbreaking bit of coverage I have seen to date was a photo of a woman sitting next to the sheet-wrapped body of her dead husband. It was the caption that really got me: the man suffered from lung cancer and died when his oxygen supply ran out. Such a frightening and tragic thing.

[ladykorana.livejournal.com]

I saw that picture and it was terrible...pretty much says it all about the desperation these people are facing.

Yeah, they're using guns to carjack vehicles carrying supplies. Looters also ripped the generator out of the back of an ambulance command station and turned over an ambulance! They're trying to break into hospitals, and medical staff have had to lock themselves in and barricade the doors. A nurse was robbed at gunpoint when she went outside to get some fresh air. All of that is so fucking low, I don't have words to express it...

[tarotgal]

and then the sniper shootings during the helicopter evaculations of one of the hospitals today... absolute madness. I don't know what that was supposed to achieve but it terrifies and sickens me.

There needs to be Martial Law declared to protect people, IMHO. I can completely understand the insanity, despair, and madness... but it shouldn't be allowed to continue. It only hurts everyone and I know no one wants that.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't get me wrong, I know that we're all in agreement at this point, I was just a little irked that everyone's sitting here discussing the ethics of this whole situation, while people in New Orleans-who are just like us- are dying. Sorry, I guess it's a sensitive time for everyone. I respect your oppinions, and agree with you all, I'm really irritated with the Bush administration. However, I have been irked for a long time. If it's not one thing, it's another. I'm just tired of it all. The US is not the same country that we were all born into, and at this point, it's really unnerving.

TG- yes, I located them. They're alright -- thank god. One of the people had already left for Louisiana State. However, his house is gone. Most of the people I knew lived near the French Quarter. Sigh. We all know what happened to that area.

Everyone take care,
~A

[tarotgal]

*hugs* I agree completely! Every single bit.

I haven't checked the site out, but I intend to tomorrow. Thanks. Always good to get more perspectives on situations.

[(Anonymous)]

I am soooo not defending the looters when I say this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. It's just gotten out of hand. As for the people who have moved beyond looting and are now shooting- well folks, as much as I love New Orleans, it has some pretty rough neighborhoods. Again, I'm not defending these people! But if you think about the number of murders, stabbings and shootings that must occur in that city on a "normal" day, know the people who commit such crimes probably didn't have the means to leave the city, and then consider what a hellish place NO is right now... there you have it. And of course the media is there to capture it all. I wish people would realize that this is not the time for such actions, but *sigh* we all know it's not going to happen. While such catastrophic events like Katrina bring out the best in most people, it doesn't bring out the best in everyone. That being said- I have friends who left the city before the mandatory evacuation and they were told that it would be 2-3 months before they can come back to see what they have left. I'm just thankful they're ok.